In this episode, Assistant Dean of Student Success Chris Dickson and alum, writer, justice work advocate, co-founder RI Freedom Collective and graduate student of Masters in Urban Education, Kyle Campbell dive into their shared journey in education, reflecting on their first meeting in a classroom and the evolution of their views on learning. They explore the idea of disrupting traditional educational hierarchies—challenging the roles of professors, students, and learners—and what it truly means to learn together. The conversation also delves into trauma responses, particularly in the context of social media, and how these responses impact how individuals, especially young people, navigate difficult situations. Kyle highlights the significance of recognizing trauma responses—fight, flight, freeze, and the newly identified "fine" response—as a tool for better handling life's challenges. This episode offers insightful reflections on the intersection of education, personal growth, family, and community, and how these elements shape our life journeys.
Freedom Starts With Connection
By Mario Monteiro, Kyle Campbell, and Steven Parkhurst
De'Vonte Parson: (00:12)
Welcome to the We CU Unbound Stories, the College Unbound Podcast, where we dive deep into the transformative work of our community, transforming self communities, justice and education. We're here to break down barriers and build up new possibilities. This is a platform for learning, a platform for healing, a platform for belonging and connection. So tune in and join us on this journey of empowerment.
Chris Dickson: (00:48)
Hey, folks. So we're back here at the College UnBound podcast, continuing our conversation with WE CU and the work that we're doing together. Chris Dixon, assistant Dean of Student Success, hanging out with my best friend. Who are you
Kyle Campbell: (01:03)
Kyle Campbell, college Unbound alum and fellow human and citizen
Chris Dickson: (01:12)
Citizens. Unite. we're here today hanging out with Amanda Devonte did an amazing intro as usual, and we're here to talk about life, education, friendship, family the long haul that we're building together. So I'll, I'll just, I'll jump and set the stage. A few years ago, Kyle and I met in a classroom, and this isn't really a conversation about the classroom but it's about disrupting classrooms. It's about disrupting hierarchies of who's professor who, student who's teacher, who's learner and what does it mean to learn together. And a few years ago, Kyle gave me a, a reading about incarceration family. It was the Ella Baker Report from 2015. We'll put it in the link. You can do that. We'll put that reading in the link about the true cross of education. Who pays and who pays as we know as families. So Kyle, I wanna maybe just start there. How is, how is your understanding of, of life, education, family evolved since our first interactions together?
Kyle Campbell: (02:32)
Interesting question and a fantastic question. So just last night, I had a beautiful opportunity to talk to young men in a local nonprofit called the Alpha Mentor Program, which I'm a board member and also a member. And I was talking with the young people between ages 12 and 25, about life, about diversion, also, about how close they are in proximity to the criminal justice system, depending on the decisions they make and how those decisions can be shaped by not just themselves, but other people. And the title of the workshop that I did with the gentleman was called conflict Resolution. Something that me and you had many, many years to speak about, but I just didn't want to give them the definition of conflict resolution, but have them develop different ways of solving conflict resolution and what it looks like on the short end and in long term throughout their lives.
Kyle Campbell: (04:08)
And one of the posing questions I had gave to the group was, what would you do if you were on social media? And someone had said, and, or someone had typed that a friend of yours was a rat. So I'm talking to young inner city kids that have no, I, no idea, so to speak, of what that is. So I asked the question, what is a rat to you? And you know, there was a stereotypical, you know tattle tale informant, a snitch. And the point of it was this, your response is a trauma response, and here's the definition of trauma response. And I gave him the four definitions, which, you know, fight, flight, freeze, or fawn. But of recent social scientists have expanded some of the trauma responses. And one of the most powerful new trauma responses is the word fine.
Kyle Campbell: (05:27)
Another one is flop, another one is fright, and another one is friend. So the reason why fine is a new trauma responses, because it's one of those commonly used words that we use to deflect Right? So you can be in an abusive relationship, or you can be an abuse, you know, abuse to yourself or feel that a parent, a loved one, a guardian, or someone in the community is invading your space. So it's easy to say things are fine. So it was a blessing to have these young, impressionable minds hearing me speak about these new trauma responses, them understanding the new trauma responses and being willing to ask questions about them and how they show up in their lives, and also ask questions about how they can navigate from healthier spaces. And that was my first time at a paid gig, right?
Kyle Campbell: (06:38)
My first time at a workshop, going back to the work that I initially wanted to do in diversion work. And unfortunately since I was released 2000 in 23rd of June, I haven't had the time to do that work. And it's a little bit of a challenge because I'm doing other work that's primarily primarily based on adults And post-work. But I wanna get back to where my heart is at, where my spirit is at. And that's talking to young kids about diversion and also talk talking to adults about diversion and the importance of getting to a place where we're not having an overreliance on the criminal justice system. We're not having an overreliance on punishment in general. And unfortunately, Rhode Island, like a lot of other states, most of monies that are used when it comes to the criminal justice system are for inner work and post work.
Kyle Campbell: (07:44)
But I'm going to stay steadfast every day on diversion work. Let's get to that place where we're not even having the conversation any longer. And sometimes it's a hard sale because a lot of people don't wanna peel back those layers. A lot of people don't want to talk about the root causes of violence, the root causes of poverty, the root causes of distress. But I've dedicated my entire life over 30 years in that line of work and what I call, I was telling someone yesterday a colleague of mine, what I call people work, right? Or individual work. What does it look like to be about the people? And not be afraid to ask those questions that lead to distress.
Chris Dickson: (08:34)
I, I love the, you've mentioned a few things. I was taking some notes and I was thinking about some of the thoughts that I've like buried underground, things that well one day maybe come to life. And the proximity piece that you're talking about, proximity to these systems that are causing harm need so much love and care to stand in those gaps. And rather than enforce them and that freeze flight stuff you're talking about with trauma if I had another life, I would spend my life doing that kind of work. And so we're, we had a lot of work to do Kyle and really, really good work. I was just, I've been in conversation with Dr. Elizabeth Stanley at Georgetown who does some trauma work. She has a book about windows and trauma that's incredible.
Chris Dickson: (09:33)
We will look into exploring some of that, actually. That's, greats sent me some some cool stuff there. Yeah. And I, I mean, going back to proximity to it, it's the work of coming up close to things, whether it's a problem, a person and really seeing kinship. My brother and I used to do workshops, conflict resolution workshops, and the whole basis of it was other becoming brother. And to shift from alterity someone that's an other is, involves action. It involves that work of proximity, getting up close, and finding the ways that we are so much more alike than we are different. And it's there if we have the time to listen to what's happening. And it's also there when we listen so well, we can realize how different we are and appreciate that. And I think it's learning to appreciate those differences that we still as a society have a lot of work to go on. I wanna ask a little bit about or have a more of a conversation too about family since you've been home how folks are what's it like navigating a master's degree still being a caregiver to mom? Family. I, say that 'cause it's always a challenge. Grappling not just work, work
Speaker 4: (11:11)
And school and, life, but also family too. How's that been navigating?
Kyle Campbell: (11:18)
Fantastic segue. So on the weekend of Martin Luther King's birthday, I had called a few people that are close to me and family, and I had expressed to them that I need some quiet time. So I haven't done that since I've been out, which is a year in six or seven months, actually. Wow. Yeah. And I've spent a, a lot, a lot of my time not practicing what I preach mm-hmm. In that sense. So it's easier for me to tell someone, someone else to slow down and pause And find calm. But for myself, I believe I'm actually doing that within my work. That's what gets me by. But to other people's perceptions, I'm doing a little too much. Right. So, the irony was this, I call a few people, I text a few people, and little bit of time went by and it became, are you okay?
Kyle Campbell: (12:21)
What's going on? . Because they're not accustomed of me asking for my own piece. So instead of spending that Saturday without talking to anyone, the LA the last phone call I made was at 12 o'clock in the night from eight o'clock in the morning to 12 o'clock on Saturday, was helping people. Right. And answering questions to a few people, they're like, are you okay? Right. And on Martin Luther King Day, I felt a little bit of shame and guilt because I didn't find that time that I wanted for myself. And yeah. I spent all day watching the Walking Dead , there you go. And catching up on something that I wanted to catch up on for a year in six months. But I felt guilty doing that because it was Dr. King's birthday. Right. Even though I've been doing his work all my life, I still felt guilty.
Kyle Campbell: (13:18)
Right. I feel that. Yeah. And there was just, and then also there was something else too. It was juxtaposed to Trump speaking. So there was a clarion call to not give any airtime to that mm-hmm Right. And that's what I did. But the next day, I made sure I gave airtime to that because the line of work that I'm in, I need to know what the federal government is doing. Right. I need to know what people that are opposed to are second chances are doing insane. So I went deep back into that political lens that I have to stay in sometimes to do the work. When it comes to my family, it's been beautiful, actually, more than a blessing that I couldn't imagine, so to speak. But it's a struggle also too, with them not understanding things that I've experienced and they're not supposed to understand.
Kyle Campbell: (14:20)
So I spend a lot of time talking to them individually about what I've seen. And also too how fragile life can become or in, or is, it's precious, but it's also fragile. So they spend a lot of time looking at me in awe in regard, because I come from several different worlds that most people will never encounter. And I do it with a specific poise and an understanding that, you know, sets them back a little bit. Right. So there are a lot of questions, a lot of times about love and about compassion that I express to them And I think sometimes my friends and family and colleague or colleagues want me to be a little more boisterous or a little more angry about what happened to me. But because I only know what happened and I can only articulate the blessings that I had found inside, which are actually more than the trauma.
Kyle Campbell: (15:27)
So that's how I conduct myself in my life, and I let it reflect in what I say, and I let it reflect in what I do. To be the oldest sibling and have my younger siblings look up to me is one of the most important things that could be part of my life. Right. Almost as I was never incarcerated. And they look up to me even with that as my background. And I spend a lot, a lot of time with my mom, more time than I did actually when I was a child because somebody said this to me recently, your mom holds you very close because she lost you for 30 years. Right. Even though we had communication within those 30 years, it's a different, that proximity, getting back to what you were saying, to just sit, I sit sometimes with my mom for hours, just me and her, no interruptions, and just talk about the past.
Kyle Campbell: (16:26)
Talk about her past, which is a past that I miss because I was gone and to find wonderment in the things that we do right now. Yeah. Man, I can't, I can't trade that for nothing. I can't trade it for anything. My school life, you know what, one of the most interesting things that happened to me in my school life happened last Tuesday moving into Wednesday. It was the first time that I dropped a class. Yeah. I've never had that experience before. I never felt in my entire life any tension inside of a classroom. . I evolve in a classroom. I excel in the classroom, I excel in my work. But recently I had started my electives. So how my master's degree in education program works is you finish your core classes first. Then you do your electives.
Kyle Campbell: (17:31)
Some schools are structured where you do your electives first and your core . So interestingly, my electives are not education based. Oh, interesting. Yeah. They're all from the counselor's master's degree. Oh, okay. Which does correlate with education. Yeah. But there are places where it doesn't correlate So being in a whole nother program posed some challenges for me. Yeah. The work was easy. What was problematic was how the professor structures the classwork going from the physical work into Canvas and all the different portals within Canvas. Were a little challenging to me For, from that digital curve and me being behind the game when it comes to that, I didn't recognize that my advisor recognized the stress, so to speak, in my body, even through body language. And I was given the grace to drop that class and go into a whole nother class because it's only been two weeks mm-hmm So I'm not losing anything. And here's the blessing of the new class, restorative justice.
Chris Dickson: (18:56)
Oh, hell yeah.
Kyle Campbell: (18:58)
That's my entire life, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's the work. So I get to take my life's work and actually shape the class Right. And it's just me and professor Nick Longo. Oh yeah. And he's the gentleman that actually gave me the grace that oversees the urban education department. They extended that Grace actually apologized to me, which there was no room for apology. There was no need for an apology That work just doesn't tie to the urban education work Right. To the sense of it would've been beneficial to me.. So what a great opportunity to now be doing a class A three credit course in restorative justice And continue on with the work at pc. Right. And Nick also extended another grace to me, allowing me a gentleman named Mario Montero, which I hear about. And our colleague Jose Rodriguez to talk with a class about democracy, restorative justice. The criminal justice system brain trauma. Mm- Yo, just,
Chris Dickson: (20:08)
I, I heard actually from, I got a call from Chris Hall after that, who I heard snuck into that conversation
Kyle Campbell: (20:14)
Yes. To, so even these parallels to be Yeah. At PC in a class talking about these big principles Right. That the criminal justice system has been embracing Some parts of the criminal justice system haven't been embracing. And to receive a call from the prison. . And we were able to pass the phone to each of the students at PC to hear this, to hear Chris talk. Right. And him to ask questions and be humorous. . And be intelligent is again some of those jewels and blessings that happen that would have never happened five years ago, 10 years ago, or 20 years ago.
Chris Dickson: (20:58)
Yeah. shout out to Nick Longo and all the work that he does in supporting students at pc CU and in Providence. We are grateful for him and his friendship.
Kyle Campbell: (21:08)
Very grateful.
Chris Dickson: (21:11)
No, this, this is really special. I, I think what I'm hearing you too, it, it's this this work of what does it mean to navigate a technological world that's sometimes inaccessible. It's also like a lot, like, there's a lot. It's like doom scrolling, and it's also, there's sometimes no end to it. I'd love to, to keep focusing and talk about education here and how it's evolving for you. And talk a little bit about College Unbound. And we were talking last time we gathered in this space about resilience and have been thinking personally a lot about the work of advocacy which is something that is so I know dear to your heart and work and scope. But we have a legislative session coming up and the work of repair, restorative justice, reconciliation needs voices like yours, like Mario's, like good folks like Nick bringing people to the table.
Chris Dickson: (22:28)
I've been thinking a lot about how abolition begins at a kitchen table. It begins by having these conversations and saying, Hey, what do we need to do here? Do we need to flip this thing totally upside down? Do we need to build a bigger table? Where are we going with this work? Because it can't be done in isolation, and that's why the table's important. Who have you been thinking about we've got a new 2025 is here nationally, things feel out of touch. But who are your people sitting around the table with you as you think about the work of restorative justice a world without prisons and the good work to come?
Kyle Campbell: (23:11)
That's a fantastic question. Recently I had a conversation with the new a CI director about what does the work look like when you need to bring together community, the prison system, education in the legislative body? And I ended off the conversation with him making it very clear that they're not separate bodies. It's all community. The problem is, is we have been separating ourselves for way too long And he asked me about CU because that's how I met him. Through cu I met the director giving me my bachelor's degree Even though I encountered him prior to that. And it was only one time, even that one time correlates back to education and College Unbound and the education that I had to fight for over 30 years while incarcerated. So the first time I met the director was through him reading my file and seeing how much advocacy I did since I was 17 years old
Kyle Campbell: (24:43)
In the casaro state, and him asking me to speak to over 60 educators from all around New England. There were teachers and also admin and some other departments that I never heard of before. And I said, how am I gonna speak to all 60 of those people by myself? . And can I bring some gentlemen along with me to get some different perspectives, right? . He says, no, I trust you to do the work. Right. Yeah. So they split it up into 30 30 people, 30 people And everyone was masked because this is when Covid happened. Yeah. So I still hadn't seen a director's face until that time. Oh, wow. Yeah. So I didn't know he was the director And I was asked to articulate 30 years of fighting for education in the system. I was able to do that in 10 minutes, and I didn't know how I did that in 10 minutes. And it was one of the most extraordinary history lessons. Yeah. Right. About my journey when it comes to education And how I'm going to fight tooth and nail to get to a place where education is not being even spoken of. Or RO state.
Kyle Campbell: (26:19)
So I struggle with this helping building the apparatus for education within the criminal justice system. So that's part of me being, how do you build the well within the desert? Right. . So when I was initially incarcerated, it was in 1993, and I was asked to help minors with their GED. It was my first time hearing the word GED Wow. Because when I was in the street, I was a good student. Those are conversations I wasn't having with anyone because I was a good student. So I was doing the natural course of the route system of education in this country. And when I was asked to help the young kids with their GED and also to just basic education, I wanted to participate and go back to school. It was the first time I was told, no, I cannot, the reason why is because they didn't know what was gonna happen to me from the training school and if I was going to get waived as an adult.
Kyle Campbell: (27:37)
So for four months, I helped the young kids with their GED because the average kid couldn't read or write at that time, and or if they could read or write, they were at maybe a fourth grade level, maybe a third grade level at 16, 17 years old. And after I was waived, that trajectory amplified in my life, where now I'm with men, I'm 17 years old, and most of those men could not read or write . And I was again, asked by the education apparatus to help them out, but now I can participate which now is 1994. At the end of 94, they created the omnibus crime bill that was passed Which sent me on a trajectory of, wow, you just took away education and vocational training in the whole of the United States. I understood clearly at that moment in time that I had the fight for what was just taken away
Kyle Campbell: (28:42)
And it took from, so it took 10 years, a 10 year span for us to finally be given an opportunity for a degree program. And that came in the light of CCRI providing us the first AA degree program. So it was a blessing to be part of that fight. Right. And that was some of the beginnings of that advocacy, fighting for education, fighting for vocational training, fighting for arts program, or anything that would so to speak, make the arduous journey of incarceration a little more palpable Right. A little more understanding where you need these specific tools to become a better man, become a better woman, become a better person, and not repeat any cycles that the system has already designed for us to repeat. And the struggle was this, I'm helping build the apparatus through trying to bring classes and programs into the DOC, but the other side of me is an abolitionist where I'm trying to tear down the system at the same time.
Kyle Campbell: (29:54)
And I still struggle with that to this day. Yeah. Because the work that I'm doing now with the Rhode Island Freedom Collective, which is two gentlemen that I spent decades with Steven Hurs and Mario Montero, both juvenile like lifers like myself, that are on parole and contributing in ways that we never imagined that we would be contributing. It's one thing to be an advocate from a child, it's another to have hopes, dreams, and aspirations to do the work Yeah. And speak it into fruition while you're incarcerated. It's a another to be out in society and asked to do the work. And that happened to me on Thursday. So every Thursday I go to the legislative body to amplify the voices of the brothers and sisters that I left inside. No one else was doing that work prior to what we're doing. . I thought that was being done in some sense.
Kyle Campbell: (31:04)
Yeah. So it's one thing for a nonprofit to have an arm of the nonprofit that does prison work. It's another for you to be in the physical space as a human being at the legislative body amplifying voices of the voiceless. And it's another thing also too, for legislators to come to you for legislators to call you and ask what is needed inside the casaro state. And I never imagined that that would be, I thought it would be the reverse where I have to do the pushing, but the world is changing. And there is an integrity that I move with. There's an integrity that Steve moves with. There's an integrity that Mario moves with that allow us to be put in those spaces. Right. And there's a trust beyond the intere integrity where wow, these guys are really doing the work. These guys are emotional sometimes when they're talking about the work.
Kyle Campbell: (32:08)
And my next goal is to amplify the voices of the communities that feel that they're voiceless within the legislative body. And then also too within the prison system, because that's a common theme of we can't get anything done. Yeah. I spent 30 years knowing that things can be done. And I make it a point to express to people that what you believe to be a normalcy where it's hopeless and duress and stress and no vision, no goals. I seen the total opposite for 30 years. I talk with these men for 30 years, so I know what their hopes and dreams are, and they're based on atonement, forgiveness, redemption insight. Sometimes it's hard to articulate that to family members and to friends. But when it comes to the comradery that's built within the prison system, the communities that are built within the prison system, and I've built other communities, I built spiritual communities within that place.
Kyle Campbell: (33:20)
We built education communities within that place. When that same place didn't want those communities to exist. I know what it is to build them. I know what it is for them to be torn down. So a lot of my aim right now is to push communities into something that's always been part of the community. And that is to understand that the legislative body is your home. They work for you. So it's free space. And within the next few weeks, I'm going to be starting up a campaign to open free space for, and most likely I do it through Google meets or Zoom, which I really don't like. I'd rather be able to knock on doors. . Can't knock on everybody's door. But I wanna make sure there's a free space that people are sharing in talking about the things that they feel would better their communities and take those voices as a formerly impacted person and show that there are different realities other than what people traditionally believe are the only voices that come and should be heard.
Kyle Campbell: (34:40)
So it's a blessing to do the work with the Freedom Collective. It's a blessing to do my individual activism. Sometimes they bleed into, it's a blessing to do, you know, educative work with college and bound with PC and the Institute of Non-Violence and different schools and nonprofits that are doing similar work and stop acting in silos. I noticed that the past few community meetings that I went to, a lot of people in Rhode Island don't know a lot of people in Rhode Island. Yeah. So happened last week, Monday for me. Yes. We have to make it a point to how do we bridge those gaps. And I believe one way to bridge those gaps is through something I struggle with. And that's technology. Right. And so that's me leaning into something that gives me angst sometimes But I have to navigate the 21st century using 21st century technology and also to 20th century technology.
Kyle Campbell: (35:45)
And that 20th century technology, to me is not being afraid to knock on doors. Right. And make myself vulnerable in those spaces. And I can tell you this much, it's very beneficial when you can show vulnerability to strangers. And yeah. It's just been a blessing to do the work. We're gonna be launching our Fisher website in like a week and a half, which is a blessing. I've al I already seen the scaffolding of it, and it's beautiful. Cool. Right. I'm just, I've been happy every day I go through my ebbs and flows of not depression not loss, but just a sense of I need to get my feet more grounded. And that's not easy to do because the world is so much faster than I thought it would be, but it's okay for the world to be fast, and it's okay for me to have enough support in my life to tell me to slow down a little bit, and that I don't need to catch up to nothing. Yeah. Right. I have to create my own lanes, which I love creating my own lanes. I love being a trendsetter. I love being a leader. And it's much appreciated from people that I admire and perceive them to be leaders to call me a leader.
Chris Dickson: (37:08)
Speaking of folks that we admire and know, we're probably been close on time but this conversation's part of, I think College of Mountain for 10 years that CU has been around for 10 years. And part of, of this work too is to celebrate the folks that we admire and learn and lead who are leading this thing. And so, a shout out to Adam Bush who has been leading at the helm the last couple years as president but really forever as co-founder of the college. I'd love to just finish maybe talking a little bit about Adam and College Unbound and what 10 years and working together with Adam has meant for you both on the inside. Seeing Adam as this guy coming in who was talking about something called College Unbound to seeing it on the outside. What has this meant for you and getting to know our president and friend Adam Bush?
Kyle Campbell: (38:07)
Great question because I,
Kyle Campbell: (38:13)
I initially met him not as a president Right. It was the first time meeting a person that, and I've said this several times, using the word love, using the word compassion and care. And this is in the Casa ru state. It was innovative, new, different, uncomfortable to men that are not even accustomed to hearing those words from family members. Right. And I dove right in because I knew what individualized education was. So that wasn't the struggle for me because I've been doing it for so long before CU it just didn't have a name to it. Right. But it still follows the same dichotomy of fighting for a different form of education that's more holistic. And I remember Adam telling me throughout the years I was incarcerated, oh, I can't wait to have you at the house and, you know, we can fellowship, but he's saying something that was just so foreign to me at the moment in time, not that I didn't believe it, but it was foreign to me.
Kyle Campbell: (39:20)
And then to know the struggles of the school, know the language that was being used so the school wouldn't exist in the casaro state was something that I continuously fought against as you know, yourself personally. And that's putting myself on a chopping block. Like, why are you advocating for these people? Right. But the same people asking me that are not advocating for me. Right. So it was a blessing to finally hear the words that Kaba was going to be accredited. Right. And to hear it directly from Adam. Right. Because he was struggling with that accreditation. Like, what is it gonna look like? And I don't wanna lose these brothers. Right. I don't wanna lose these sisters to not being accredited because for decades they haven't been credited . Right. So before being released, that was probably one of the biggest thing that had happened, where wow.
Kyle Campbell: (40:21)
We helped the school become accredited. And I remember telling the 90 to 95% of the men that wanted to leave College Unbound because those feelings start to come back up. Right. Like, we're not gonna be accredited and we're never gonna be able to use this work that we did. So my mantra was this, imagine that you get to put that on a resume, that you helped the school become accredited, that you get to tell your family members, your daughters, and your sons, and your grandkids. I help Rhode Island's 13th College become a college. Yeah. So that was that mainstay. And to attain my bachelor's degree in the Casaro state, which was something that was not supposed to happen in accordance to the Casaro state, was one of the best gifts that could happen. And Adam made sure that happened. Dennis Litany made sure that happened.
Kyle Campbell: (41:14)
The faculty at College Unbound and all of their partners made that happen and to be released. And this man open his house to me freely at any time. And that's how he tells me, flippantly, you could sleep over, you can lay down where you wanna lay, and you can bring people into space as something that I couldn't imagine happening right from now, a college president. I don't know of any other presidents doing that, but I'll take that open invitation anytime. And he actually, interestingly put me in a very, very put peculiar position, which he has the tendency to do to everyone. But he's doing it from a place of love. He knows that I'll be writing my book, which is already done, but not writing it, but publishing it. And I've been sitting on it since 2010, terribly, right? And I'm not a procrastinator, but I could say I actually finally admitted that I am a procrastinator, when it comes to my own work.
Kyle Campbell: (42:13)
I do not like giving up my work. I don't like giving up my schoolwork. I don't like giving up anything I do. And that's just a, a me thing, right? I, I cove my work and Adam actually extended me one of the most powerful graces in the world, and said, Kyle, how about doing the book opening and the book signing at my house, ? And no one said that to me. Yeah. I didn't know where it came from. Mm-Hmm I felt a little bit uncomfortable, and not because he was reaching or overreaching, it was just where it was just something that I had never been asked . Or even thought about, like, where am I gonna do the book signing And so right after he said it to me, it was something like he sent that into the ether. The brothers that I grew up with in Chad Brown that owned a barbershop had extended the same grease to me.
Kyle Campbell: (43:09)
Oh wow. Not knowing that Adam extended it to me And it was like, yo, when you do the book signing, come to the the barbershop, and it's a barbershop that is owned by a friend of mine called Inner City Designs. And this is someone that I grew up with 35 years ago. You know, and people that are from the old community all gather there. That's our actual headquarters for the Chad Brown Alumni Association. So we made sure not to leave the community, but to build an entrepreneurialship and create nonprofits specifically in the community for young people to see that you can not live in public housing any longer But just still connected to it. So I got this beautiful dichotomy going on between should I do the book signing at Adam's house or should I do the book signing at the the shop?
Kyle Campbell: (43:55)
Yeah. And so I told Adam because I was struggling with that. Because he initially extended that grace to me, and I didn't wanna be disrespectful. He laughs about it and says, no, Kyle, you do that there. The name of the book is called Red, white, green and Concrete. It's about Chad Brown Housing Project. So you do it there and then come to the house because it's always open for you. Yeah. So, you know, that was like, I really, you know, I, I call it a grace and a blessing, but I really can't put words to how that man has shaped my life. How he's given space to the Rhode Island Freedom Collective to do our work and offer us free space at any time, which we do need. Right. We are an infant nonprofit, but we are not in infancy when it comes to the learned experience, the expertise. Right. The love that needs to go into a project of its magnitude and where we want to take it. And he's introduced us to people that we never thought we would meet, you know, given us a place to call home where we can do our work. And, and I can't speak enough on him.
Chris Dickson: (45:10)
Yeah. I'll never forget meeting Adam and in our first conversation or two, he was like, join this college and bound, help me build this college with me. And that was summer 2017. And I think of his words to you while you were incarcerated about fellowship and how consistent he's been, at least with me and with you and everyone I know about how consist of a presence he's been in my life as a friend, mentor, and guide towards the liberatory work that we're all get, we're all, all to do together. So shout out to Adam, shout out to 10 years of College Unbound. I know. We gotta wrap it up. But thanks. Thank you so much, bud, for being here. What's something that folks should be thinking about in the coming weeks? You say you're sending out something anything. I really appreciate, Kyle sent me a text last Friday being like, Hey, on Saturday there's a legislative action training. What else should we know about happening in Rhode Island to prepare ourselves for the work to come?
Kyle Campbell: (46:20)
Great question and a great segue to end off this beautiful interview. So the Rhode Island Freedom Collective, in addition to other nonprofits throughout the state and also stakeholders, families, criminal justice system, the ags office, the governor's office, legislative body we're specifically gonna be pushing for two bills. And the first bill is called free Communications. And what that entails is free communications through emails in the Department of Corrections, phone calls and FaceTime, which have exorbitant prices which connects to the collateral damage that families have to suffer when it comes to either paying for a phone call or trying to send a care package to your loved one. Mm-Hmm Right. It's a very, very thin line and a very fine line, and a very stressful line for families and incarcerated people. And that's a national movement that we've actually been asked to spearhead in Rhode Island as the Freedom Collective.
Kyle Campbell: (47:36)
And that's what we're doing as formally impacted folk. We're also going to be highlighting another bill that we are really not too clear on the name yet. But it will premise on giving formally and also presently impacted people. A fair chance at an early chance at release. So presently, if you are afforded the chance at parole, usually you are denied your first, second, third shot of parole. This will allow you to petition the courts to say, I'm rehabilitated. Right. I found redemption and forgiveness. I've done, you know, X amount of classes and programs. I have a family structure, I have a release plan in place. And your Honor, I feel that I'm suited for reentry And this will give a judge the sole power to release you at an earlier time other than your expected flat date or relying on parole.
Kyle Campbell: (48:39)
. And it's one of the most powerful bills that we were very close of as to get it passed last year. I remember. Yeah. And unfortunately it wasn't prioritized, which is okay, that's part of the legislative process. But this year it's very, very promising that actually both pills get passed. And the third bill that is very near and dear to my heart that I'll be helping to push is an expungement bill. There are tens of thousands of Rhode Islanders that need that second chance or some semblance of a chance of not having a criminal record be docketed any longer. So I would definitely put in my efforts towards that bill also.
Chris Dickson: (49:19)
Cool. I love it. I love free communication. We need it we need folks coming out. And I love this work of expungement. It's the most important thing we can be working towards together. We'll see you at the state houses here.
Kyle Campbell: (49:36)
Absolutely. Can't wait for it. All
Chris Dickson: (49:38)
Right. Thanks so much, man.
Kyle Campbell: (49:39)
Thank you, Chris.